About SegaCD TOSEC - Forum Gametronik
IPB

Bienvenue invité ( Connexion | Inscription )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> About SegaCD TOSEC
rodi
posté 18/11/07 - 01:14
Message #1


Recrue


Groupe : Members
Messages : 6
Inscrit : 17/11/07
Membre no 39 536
GTrons: 60



Hello everyone!
First let me congratulate you for your excellent work. Gametronik is one of the best emulation sites in the world and I have been visiting for a very long time but this is the first time I am posting.

So here is why I'm writing.
A few years ago, I made a small collection of SegaCD games as ISO+MP3 files. I 've been trying for some time now to organize this collection a little better by using the TOSEC database to have an exact backup of each game. TOSEC dats use WAV files for audio tracks so I needed to download these games again. I downloaded some TOC-Confirmed SegaCD games from Gametronik but the audio files don't seem to match with the CRC recorded in TOSEC dats. I was wondering if these games are TOSEC verified or I need to make some kind of conversion. Can someone with more experience on this give some information? Does the same apply for Saturn games? I also made my own backup of Nights Into Dreams for example with CDRWIN and the audio tracks don't even match in size.

Thank you for any help!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lenny
posté 18/11/07 - 10:44
Message #2


Gardien du temple ...
********

Groupe : Members
Messages : 12 635
Inscrit : 17/02/05
Lieu : Paris
Membre no 7 112
GTrons: 75106



Welcome Rodi.

Mr Shu will tell you all you want to know about the Sega/Mega CD isos and his Tosec verification wink.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rodi
posté 18/11/07 - 22:23
Message #3


Recrue


Groupe : Members
Messages : 6
Inscrit : 17/11/07
Membre no 39 536
GTrons: 60



Hello again!
Thank you for welcoming me Lenny. I'm really happy to be a member in this forum.

I was trying these past few days to get more information about the SegaCD and Saturn discs in general and try making a game backup. I knew that audio tracks are more difficult to extract because there is no error correction so to be certain that the wav files are correct, I used the TOSEC dats to check them (sadly, they didn't match). I don't know if other persons that make a backup of a game verify it this way or perhaps it's not that important for audio files.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lenny
posté 19/11/07 - 10:44
Message #4


Gardien du temple ...
********

Groupe : Members
Messages : 12 635
Inscrit : 17/02/05
Lieu : Paris
Membre no 7 112
GTrons: 75106



I think "SHU", that make the isos with TOSEC dats verification ... wait & see.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
shu
posté 09/01/08 - 20:15
Message #5


Sauveur de princesses
********

Groupe : Admin

Messages : 10 444
Inscrit : 21/10/04
Lieu : Vendée
Membre no 3 370
GTrons: 467900



Hello and sorry to be late ! blush.gif

Saturn and Mega-CD backups have been made by the same way which is able here. They are not TOSEC verified but Gametronik verified. biggrin.gif

Here is the explanation :

In fact, it depends on what method is used to extract audio files, but CRC isn't so important to obtain a good backup of the game. CRC of the track01.iso file is the only really important thing.
If you used the same method as me, you obtained audio files with a different size compared to those you can find in the TOSEC dats, because the subcode analysis is disable. The consequence is that the audio blank between 2 audio files is added to the end of each precedent audio file, so its size is longer.
If you try to enable the subcode analysis by setting it on "auto", you will see that audio files size match with these who are notified in the TOSEC dats.

So why don't I used these settings ?
Simply because we don't have to notify INDEX00 in the cuesheet for all audio files which are preceded by a 2 seconds silence, this audio blank is added to the end of the precedent audio file. The important thing is that each audio file begin at the good time, and that is confirmed by checking the Table Of Contents.
So this method allow us making cuesheets with a really simply way using Sega Cue Maker (with a little correction of course).

Another thing to note is I tried to make backups with subcode analysis enable, and I didn't obtain the same CRC than TOSEC for audio files, but the size of each one match with them. So I don't really know what method they used.

I hope my english is not too bad so you could understand me. smile.gif


--------------------

**************************************************************




La Légende renait le 19/11/2019 !

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rodi
posté 10/01/08 - 02:56
Message #6


Recrue


Groupe : Members
Messages : 6
Inscrit : 17/11/07
Membre no 39 536
GTrons: 60



Hello Shu !
Thank you very much for your reply, you are really very helpful.

As I understand the size and crc of the audio files may differ depending on the backup method. So to have a high quality game backup we should make a bin+cue image (or iso+wavs) as you describe in your guide. This way the audio is a perfect rip and the track indexes will be correct and if we burn this image to a disc it will play as the original. I hope this is the general idea.

Well, I will experiment a little more and see the results !
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
shu
posté 10/01/08 - 20:32
Message #7


Sauveur de princesses
********

Groupe : Admin

Messages : 10 444
Inscrit : 21/10/04
Lieu : Vendée
Membre no 3 370
GTrons: 467900



I can see you understand pretty well frensh language. wink.gif So I'll speak frensh now ! tongue.gif It's a joke. biggrin.gif

The important thing is that cuesheets are made according to audio files extracting method and to obtain a good TOC. This backup method is the more simple way to have a similar TOC compared to the original game disc.

Our cuesheets are good to use with our audio tracks but are bad if you enable the subcode analysis. And TOSEC cuesheets are good in this case, but they are bad using with our audio tracks.

For example, imagine you have a 2 seconds audio blank between track02 and track03 :

If you enable subcode analysis, you must have a cuesheet like that (TOSEC method) :

FILE "Track01.iso" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE1/2048
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Track02.wav" WAVE
TRACK 02 AUDIO
PREGAP 00:02:00
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Track03.wav" WAVE
TRACK 03 AUDIO
INDEX 00 00:00:00
INDEX 01 00:02:00

Index00 shows when the 2 seconds audio blank begins and Index01 shows when track03 is starting.

Now you're making the same backup with subcode analysis disabled, the cuesheet have to be this way (Gametronik method) :

FILE "Track01.iso" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE1/2048
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Track02.wav" WAVE
TRACK 02 AUDIO
PREGAP 00:02:00
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Track03.wav" WAVE
TRACK 03 AUDIO
INDEX 01 00:00:00

Here the 2 seconds audio blank is included at the end of track02 (with a longer size of course), so track03 is starting at 00:00:00.
With these 2 methods you obtain a good backup with a similar TOC compared to the original game disc, but the first one needs many more time to control each audio track and to generate cuesheets. Making perfect backups with a TOC control is taking already very much time and you wouldn't have so many titles enable on Gametronik if I had to use the first method.

I hope you let me know your test results, thank you. wink.gif

And please have a look here, where are listed all games enable on Gametronik for now. In case you have games that are not in that list, I could be interested to get them, thank you. smile.gif


--------------------

**************************************************************




La Légende renait le 19/11/2019 !

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rodi
posté 12/01/08 - 19:03
Message #8


Recrue


Groupe : Members
Messages : 6
Inscrit : 17/11/07
Membre no 39 536
GTrons: 60



Don't worry Shu, your english is very good but unfortunately I don't speak french sad.gif ! (I could write in greek though!)

Well, your example is very nice and shows why the tracks are different for each case. I don't know exactly what the subcode analysis is but I will search it.
Oh, I looked at the list of games that you have but sorry, I only have Road Avenger and Sonic both PAL which a friend lent me for a while. These games are very rare here in my country because the system was not very successful. Of course, if I find any game it's not in the list, I would be happy to contribute.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 utilisateur(s) sur ce sujet (1 invité(s) et 0 utilisateur(s) anonyme(s))
0 membre(s) :

 



RSS Version bas débit Nous sommes le : 12/12/19 - 01:09